<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.2" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Commencement: Final Edition</title>
	<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/</link>
	<description>news and views from uc berkeley</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Conservative 771</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1039</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative 771</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2005 08:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1039</guid>
		<description>B.A.D.: "Not every black in America is a descendant of a slave", true.  I admit an anti-discrimination policy falls through in numerous places and that not every person can be associated with a particular group.  That's a problem, but is it so big a problem that it overrules the initial problem?  I guess the question is, does the creation of that problem create a bigger problem than the one it's trying to fix?  Hmm.  I'd like to say no, but I don't have too much evidence on me right now.

To interject into the idea of theme housing--segregation of thought as HB put it--that is curious.  More meaningfully, doesn't that trend of segregation of thought reach a lot deeper?  Dorms like Bowles and Stern.  Better yet, "liberal" and "conservative."  If you don't fit in one or the other people sometimes go blank on you, summoning up questions like "What &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; you believe in?"  And you're thinking "Lots of things, dumbass, it's just that I'm not a goddamn sheep."  Anyway, that's pretty broad, but I guess you were specifically referring to groups that choose to do believe one thing or another.  Everywhere as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B.A.D.: &#8220;Not every black in America is a descendant of a slave&#8221;, true.  I admit an anti-discrimination policy falls through in numerous places and that not every person can be associated with a particular group.  That&#8217;s a problem, but is it so big a problem that it overrules the initial problem?  I guess the question is, does the creation of that problem create a bigger problem than the one it&#8217;s trying to fix?  Hmm.  I&#8217;d like to say no, but I don&#8217;t have too much evidence on me right now.</p>
<p>To interject into the idea of theme housing&#8211;segregation of thought as HB put it&#8211;that is curious.  More meaningfully, doesn&#8217;t that trend of segregation of thought reach a lot deeper?  Dorms like Bowles and Stern.  Better yet, &#8220;liberal&#8221; and &#8220;conservative.&#8221;  If you don&#8217;t fit in one or the other people sometimes go blank on you, summoning up questions like &#8220;What <i>do</i> you believe in?&#8221;  And you&#8217;re thinking &#8220;Lots of things, dumbass, it&#8217;s just that I&#8217;m not a goddamn sheep.&#8221;  Anyway, that&#8217;s pretty broad, but I guess you were specifically referring to groups that choose to do believe one thing or another.  Everywhere as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HB</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1025</link>
		<dc:creator>HB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1025</guid>
		<description>http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/2004/12/04/

segregation of thought, my lefty friend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/2004/12/04/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/2004/12/04/</a></p>
<p>segregation of thought, my lefty friend</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HB</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>HB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>"theme" housing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;theme&#8221; housing</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patr</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>patr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 05:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>Andy: Yeah, restaurants and golf courses owned by private entities should be allowed to choose who they wish to associate with. Whether it be in hiring employees or serving customers. If they have a sign that says "We have the right to refuse service" then they should really have that right and not have the government get in their way. Of course if a company decides not to hire Asians or serve blacks, they would be very deserving of a boycott.

Clubs on public school campuses are a tricky issue. Some religious clubs may choose to be restrictive in their membership. I read an article about this somewhere. I'd say that as long as they don't receive school funding, we give them some leeway.

But the rule of thumb is if they're private funded, they have the right to discriminate, if not, then they don't. I think it probably hurts your bottom line and your public image if you choose to exercise these rights. However, freedom is a double-edged sword and taking the bad along with the good is the price.

I looked up the South Park episode, and it's entitled "Cripple Fight." Here's a &lt;a href="http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-344/epid-53957/"&gt;synopsis&lt;/a&gt;, but watching it is way more fun. And educational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy: Yeah, restaurants and golf courses owned by private entities should be allowed to choose who they wish to associate with. Whether it be in hiring employees or serving customers. If they have a sign that says &#8220;We have the right to refuse service&#8221; then they should really have that right and not have the government get in their way. Of course if a company decides not to hire Asians or serve blacks, they would be very deserving of a boycott.</p>
<p>Clubs on public school campuses are a tricky issue. Some religious clubs may choose to be restrictive in their membership. I read an article about this somewhere. I&#8217;d say that as long as they don&#8217;t receive school funding, we give them some leeway.</p>
<p>But the rule of thumb is if they&#8217;re private funded, they have the right to discriminate, if not, then they don&#8217;t. I think it probably hurts your bottom line and your public image if you choose to exercise these rights. However, freedom is a double-edged sword and taking the bad along with the good is the price.</p>
<p>I looked up the South Park episode, and it&#8217;s entitled &#8220;Cripple Fight.&#8221; Here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-344/epid-53957/">synopsis</a>, but watching it is way more fun. And educational.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: B.A.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>B.A.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Slavery, sharecropping, etc. affected individuals. Yeah, a lot of individuals who shared characteristics that were directly responsible for that impact, but still individuals. Not every black in America is a descendant of a slave. Groups aren't people. If you hurt a dude who looks like me, I'm not necessarily hurt. (that's the broken leg example)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slavery, sharecropping, etc. affected individuals. Yeah, a lot of individuals who shared characteristics that were directly responsible for that impact, but still individuals. Not every black in America is a descendant of a slave. Groups aren&#8217;t people. If you hurt a dude who looks like me, I&#8217;m not necessarily hurt. (that&#8217;s the broken leg example)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy R.</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1020</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 03:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1020</guid>
		<description>Patr: I'm not entirely familiar with discrimmination laws.  When you say you support the right to segregate for "private individuals and organizations" what exactly is a private organization?  Does a restaurant count?  Golf course?  YMCA?  UC Berkeley club?  

Secondly, which South Park Boy Scout episode are you talking about?  I've seen episodes that have the boyscouts in them, but I'm not sure if it's the one you're talking about.
thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patr: I&#8217;m not entirely familiar with discrimmination laws.  When you say you support the right to segregate for &#8220;private individuals and organizations&#8221; what exactly is a private organization?  Does a restaurant count?  Golf course?  YMCA?  UC Berkeley club?  </p>
<p>Secondly, which South Park Boy Scout episode are you talking about?  I&#8217;ve seen episodes that have the boyscouts in them, but I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s the one you&#8217;re talking about.<br />
thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conservative 771</title>
		<link>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1017</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative 771</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2005/06/05/commencement-final-edition/#comment-1017</guid>
		<description>I'm wholly replying to patr.  Acknowledging that a few of Andy's points are clearly in my direction I'm not responding to them because I only have enough space and time for one response.  Maybe I'll be able to get back at this tomorrow.

Anyway, to patr.  My basic premise is that people will act with in accordance with their own individual beliefs.  However, this is getting away from the main issue at hand.

So, here's why I say your idea is outdated.  Early in American history race mattered because it determined your socio econoic status (i.e. indentured servitude, or slave for life).  This is not the view I hold.  The 60's brought about Martin Luther King, jr. who espoused the view that race shouldn't matter whatsoever--that we should evaluate people on a completely individual basis.  I believe this is the view that you hold.  The new--and radical--view is that which tries to evaluate people on an individual basis, but also takes into account historical social and economic interactions that resulted from racism early on.  These historical events, such as slavery and, after that, sharecropping directly influenced the general economic situations of, in this case, African Americans.  It is being mindful of events like these and the way they shaped the racial structure in the United States that brings you this next element in the radical view that I espouse.  That of moving towards racial equilibrium and actively pursuing strategies that raise up some groups from their previously, averaged, lower station in life.

Before I go on, let me explain why it's important to keep those historical events in mind.  While these events are not remembered by every person in the particular race that an event hindered or affected, they are a part of history that occurred in large part because of racism.  Saying that we should "leave this in the past" is the moral equivalent of breaking someone's leg and asking them to forget about the wrong you did to them years later because it's "in the past".  While they can still achieve some success they have been very much hindered in being able to do so.

So, acknowledging that, my radical view moves to help those groups that were previously harmed in our (our being the United States) history.

Going on to answer your last question--No, I don't wake up in the morning and look at myself in the mirror and question how my skin color will determine my day.  While I can't speak for anyone but me, I believe this is a majority opinion.  However, even if you don't consciously think about race, that doesn't mean it isn't a factor somewhere.  Like the history that delivered a family to the small apartment in Chicago.  Or the reason that numerous low-income jobs are held by Mexicans in a certain part of california.  Think of anti-discrimination law as legislation that is reversing the harmful effects of past discrimation up until, and going no further than, when discrimination began to derail ALL racial groups from their rightful (but equal) share of power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wholly replying to patr.  Acknowledging that a few of Andy&#8217;s points are clearly in my direction I&#8217;m not responding to them because I only have enough space and time for one response.  Maybe I&#8217;ll be able to get back at this tomorrow.</p>
<p>Anyway, to patr.  My basic premise is that people will act with in accordance with their own individual beliefs.  However, this is getting away from the main issue at hand.</p>
<p>So, here&#8217;s why I say your idea is outdated.  Early in American history race mattered because it determined your socio econoic status (i.e. indentured servitude, or slave for life).  This is not the view I hold.  The 60&#8217;s brought about Martin Luther King, jr. who espoused the view that race shouldn&#8217;t matter whatsoever&#8211;that we should evaluate people on a completely individual basis.  I believe this is the view that you hold.  The new&#8211;and radical&#8211;view is that which tries to evaluate people on an individual basis, but also takes into account historical social and economic interactions that resulted from racism early on.  These historical events, such as slavery and, after that, sharecropping directly influenced the general economic situations of, in this case, African Americans.  It is being mindful of events like these and the way they shaped the racial structure in the United States that brings you this next element in the radical view that I espouse.  That of moving towards racial equilibrium and actively pursuing strategies that raise up some groups from their previously, averaged, lower station in life.</p>
<p>Before I go on, let me explain why it&#8217;s important to keep those historical events in mind.  While these events are not remembered by every person in the particular race that an event hindered or affected, they are a part of history that occurred in large part because of racism.  Saying that we should &#8220;leave this in the past&#8221; is the moral equivalent of breaking someone&#8217;s leg and asking them to forget about the wrong you did to them years later because it&#8217;s &#8220;in the past&#8221;.  While they can still achieve some success they have been very much hindered in being able to do so.</p>
<p>So, acknowledging that, my radical view moves to help those groups that were previously harmed in our (our being the United States) history.</p>
<p>Going on to answer your last question&#8211;No, I don&#8217;t wake up in the morning and look at myself in the mirror and question how my skin color will determine my day.  While I can&#8217;t speak for anyone but me, I believe this is a majority opinion.  However, even if you don&#8217;t consciously think about race, that doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t a factor somewhere.  Like the history that delivered a family to the small apartment in Chicago.  Or the reason that numerous low-income jobs are held by Mexicans in a certain part of california.  Think of anti-discrimination law as legislation that is reversing the harmful effects of past discrimation up until, and going no further than, when discrimination began to derail ALL racial groups from their rightful (but equal) share of power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
