Then again, jingoism and ignorance are fun and blissful.

…secondly, while I don’t doubt that the leaders of al-qaida and others are angered by a perception of western “liberalism” or decadence, they also have specific political aims like a removal of US troops from the holy land of Saudi Arabia and a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the latter of which should definitely be a higher priority of the US

We did not start the “us or them” mentality. Fundamentalism is less of a threat to liberal states, than liberalism is to fundamentalist states. On its own, a fundamentalist state is not a threat to the West. However, the existence of the West is a threat to the fundamentalists. Without even firing a shot, our movies, books, ideas cause more damage to backward regimes. This is the main reason why they see us as such an enemy and a threat.

We can argue about the merits of our wars, but I think that the point I made above is of the utmost importance.

…first off, the middle east and the muslim world are far more complex than you suggest, both in this post and in “it’s about freedom” that you linked too. you have an ‘us’ versus ‘them’ mentality as when you say “Our liberal culture is a threat to their totalitarian/fundamentalist one” above. It’s just not that simple. I know you don’t think America is monolithic, so why would the Muslim world be?

For example (I think this order is right), largest Muslim population in the world? Indonesia. second largest? India, also the largest democracy. “Ah,” you say, “that just goes to show how Democracy can coexist with Islam, and you liberals who opposed the war in Iraq said it couldn’t be done.”

To the contrary, and speaking for myself here as I am throughout, I think Islam and Democracy are quite compatible. Sure there will be issues from time to time, but it’s not as though questions of religion and state don’t come up all the time in this country.

One of my major misgivings about this war from the beginning has been the idea that we can go in with military force and impose democracy. To paraphrase Churchill, democracy may be a horrible form of government, except for all the others. Even so, democracy becomes even less appealing when it’s brought about by foreigners who don’t exactly have a sterling reputation in much of the Middle East. How would you feel about democracy if it was brought by people who, even if accidental, blew up the coffee shop, killed your cousin, and then couldn’t even turn the lights back on? None of this is to say that Iraq may not turn out to be a stable democracy, I hope it does, but it’s going to take a hell of a lot of work and time and blood and money to do, and Bush has never leveled with the American people, in my opinion.

…In terms of the recent tragic terrorist attacks in London, they may have happened if we had or hadn’t invaded Iraq, but doesn’t it make sense to you that the war could have galvanized some angry but otherwise peaceful poeple into joining the terrorists? To me it seems there is a hard-core of terrorists like bin Laden and his lieutenants, but the lower level guys who actually blow themselves and others up weren’t born evil.

…anyways, back to the middle east, it is home to a multitude of cultures, religions, languages, ethnic groups, political systems, and histories that cannot simply be categorized as “them.” you can’t limit the people of a country or culture, much less a whole region of the world, to a few “essential” characteristics as they would say in anthropology.

don’t take my word for any of this though, take a class on middle eastern culture or history or religion. History 12 taught me plenty I didn’t know and will probably challenge your political opinions. at least sit in on a few classes…

i’m tired so i’ll shut up now

with plenty of double standsrds