Comments on: Students Protest City Council’s Involvement in ASUC http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/ news and views from uc berkeley Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:40:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: mickeyk http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11187 mickeyk Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:20:22 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11187 "In order to answer this question, it is important to note that the regulatory documents of the ASUC - the Constitution, By-Laws, and JRP's - are democratically constructed and democratically passed into law, whether through student referendum or the student-elected legislative Senate. If laws were passed that could prevent a winning candidate from taking office, this was done with the intention of protecting students who would not know of the candidate's misconduct when casting votes in his/her favor." The J-council put it better than I ever did. “In order to answer this question, it is important to note that the regulatory documents of the ASUC - the Constitution, By-Laws, and JRP’s - are democratically constructed and democratically passed into law, whether through student referendum or the student-elected legislative Senate. If laws were passed that could prevent a winning candidate from taking office, this was done with the intention of protecting students who would not know of the candidate’s misconduct when casting votes in his/her favor.”

The J-council put it better than I ever did.

]]> By: Mickey Klein http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11176 Mickey Klein Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:13:40 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11176 lol, true. As for the rules though, they did not have to tie unlimited agency to Vakil because the crime was not committed during the campaign. lol, true. As for the rules though, they did not have to tie unlimited agency to Vakil because the crime was not committed during the campaign.

]]> By: Beetle http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11175 Beetle Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:08:08 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11175 The moral analysis is even simpler, actually: Someone has to draw all these conclusions you're drawing. In a democratic society, there are rules that assign that job. The moral analysis is even simpler, actually: Someone has to draw all these conclusions you’re drawing. In a democratic society, there are rules that assign that job.

]]> By: Mickey Klein http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11174 Mickey Klein Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:38:26 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11174 My moral sense of this issue has never budged, although my legal arguments may have shifted after having to rehash ideas. The moral analysis is much simpler. In a democratic society, courts are charged to monitor the campaigns and the tallying of votes to ensure that the voters are not tampered with and the votes fairly counted. It is natural in such a system for a court to be able to ammend the tally for violations that occured during the campaign and put the people who truly won in power. The moral problem in this case is that the tally is being ammended to remedy a crime committed after the tally. There is no dispute that the purjury tampered with the voter's will. Furthermore, attempts to rationalize the purjury injustice by saying the chalking needed the remedy because it swung the election are absurd, it was clearly evident that Student Action was the better organized party and had a wider base of popular support. My moral sense of this issue has never budged, although my legal arguments may have shifted after having to rehash ideas.

The moral analysis is much simpler.

In a democratic society, courts are charged to monitor the campaigns and the tallying of votes to ensure that the voters are not tampered with and the votes fairly counted. It is natural in such a system for a court to be able to ammend the tally for violations that occured during the campaign and put the people who truly won in power.

The moral problem in this case is that the tally is being ammended to remedy a crime committed after the tally. There is no dispute that the purjury tampered with the voter’s will.

Furthermore, attempts to rationalize the purjury injustice by saying the chalking needed the remedy because it swung the election are absurd, it was clearly evident that Student Action was the better organized party and had a wider base of popular support.

]]> By: bobby gregg http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11173 bobby gregg Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:20:52 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11173 I just have to say, this is a great example of the fascinating conflict between right and wrong, and how they line of separation can be so blurred and so relative. Especially when people become personally vested -- this often results in the "line" moving one way or the other. And some of us are better at knowing the boundaries than others. As an example, Igor immediately confessed to his campaign misconduct as he learned of it and volunteered himself to the consequences. Even though it could have warranted his disqualification, his sense of right and wrong never budged. I can't say the same for the Student Action party given their tactics through this ordeal. And I can't say the same about you Mickey, given your arguments on this thread (although this has made for a very interesting debate). I apologize if this comes off as a personal attack, but I think your arguments have some serious problems as I have already mentioned. I just have to say, this is a great example of the fascinating conflict between right and wrong, and how they line of separation can be so blurred and so relative. Especially when people become personally vested — this often results in the “line” moving one way or the other. And some of us are better at knowing the boundaries than others.

As an example, Igor immediately confessed to his campaign misconduct as he learned of it and volunteered himself to the consequences. Even though it could have warranted his disqualification, his sense of right and wrong never budged. I can’t say the same for the Student Action party given their tactics through this ordeal. And I can’t say the same about you Mickey, given your arguments on this thread (although this has made for a very interesting debate). I apologize if this comes off as a personal attack, but I think your arguments have some serious problems as I have already mentioned.

]]> By: bobby gregg http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11172 bobby gregg Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:11:48 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11172 Hmmm, justice, what an errant idea. Hmmm, justice, what an errant idea.

]]> By: Mickey Klein http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11170 Mickey Klein Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:35:30 +0000 http://www.californiapatriot.org/blog/2006/07/24/students-protest-city-council%e2%80%99s-involvement-in-asuc/#comment-11170 Yes, they are my fraternity brothers. I believe that they are doing a wrong thing but I don't hold it personally against them, I know they are good people on an errant idea. Yes, they are my fraternity brothers. I believe that they are doing a wrong thing but I don’t hold it personally against them, I know they are good people on an errant idea.

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